Ink Optimization RoundUP-Supplier Discussion

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Supplier Discussion Thread

February 8 Conference Call

Bruce Brown: My I suggest PressPercent by excourse to measure the in
change.

William Li: Q:Test 2, will there be a definition of what
elements are supposed to be color managed?

William Li: Does Test 2 imply that we are supposed to color manage some
elements (eg, image) and not others, or that we should color manage all
elements? Need more definition on this.

mdicosola: how are you measuring test 4? using the eye-one color bar shown?

Chris GMG: test4: I think we will only show press variance if we try to
compare original to the InkOptimized image. The real value of GCR is to
compensate for press fluctuation, therefore the right test is to compare
press sheet to proof, and judge if the GCR images match the proof beter or
not. Good GCR should provide a superior match when it comes to presstoproof

Bruce Brown: actually it would be nice to know the throughput of a system

William Li: re: Test 8, if we have a system for automatically processing
files, does that mean we should get IPA to drop the file down into our
system?  I'm not sure this test makes sense from a consumer standpoint.

Joe: I would like to see a dummy ad somewhere on the press form that has a
very high TAC %

paul gestels: We like to see some transparancy (PDF x/4) in the testpage

mdicosola: Bruce can you share a resource for looking at the product you
just mentioned?

Bruce Brown: www.excourse.com

paul gestels: Will there be any evaluation of Overprinted objects (OP 1)

Bruce Brown: good point paul

William Li: re: paper choice, if we're targetting GRACoL C1, paper choice
should be whatever gets us the closest to that data set.

William Li: There is no significant difference between #1 and #2 anyways, as
far as this is concerned.

mdicosola: a no vote means that we have no preference correct?

William Li: Are we going to get the email and chat issues answered?

Bruce Brown: yes.. but you know how cgs and gmg are.. we like accuracy! lol

Bruce Brown: They can make 1-bit and make a proof

William Li: We like accuracy as well. ;>

Aileen Chiu: Running on the press, does the image on the center of the form
have advantage over images on other areas.. (such as sides..) just like for
profiling, we tend to put the test chart in the center of the sheet.
William Li: Transparency, etc, is ok, but if you're going to mix in PDF
interpretation issues for this test, we'll need to have a well-defined guide
up front a la Altona.

Bruce Brown: What about how gcr affects the trapping from the original
within an image?

William Li: We're quite fine with doing tests for PDF handling, testing of
differential handling of bitmap vs. vector vs. image, etc, but the expected
handling needs to be explicitly detailed ahead of time.

William Li: I did?

William Li: Which William Li are you referring to?

Bruce Brown: The altona might be a good test for the overprints as well..

William Li: My point about the PDF is that I just want expected PDF handling
to be defined for the test.  I have no problem with mixing this in; it's
just more work for Abhay et al.

Elie Khoury: Hi, I will have to leave now, but I will post some comments to
Abhau and to the group

Elie Khoury: Looking forward for the conference call notes, we will go from
there

Bruce Brown: Abhay.. no that is not what the whole gcr industry is saying
how it got better. Our sales press sheets show this as well

Bruce Brown: Gcr produces better results

Bruce Brown: closer to proof

Chris GMG: exactly

Chris GMG: the biggest difference between original to GCR might actually the
best press to proof match, if the press is unstable

Ian Mackenzie: Bruce and Chris, would you want to see individual press runs
for each vendor as a possible solution?

William Li: Agree on GCR samples matching proof better than the
''reference''.  ''reference press'' = ''GCR press'' is not what we say to
the public.

Chris GMG: no, i thnk one combined press run is fine. But compare GCR image
to proof and not to thr nonGCR image

William Li: I don't think individual press runs is required -- this would
complicate things even more.  Perhaps press samples bound with proofs...

William Li: I'm sure Fuji would love to produce a bazillion proofs for this.

Bruce Brown: I would say that the book could do the press run but that a
graphic about how well it matched the proof.. like some kind of score

Chris GMG: well, we have to differntiate of what is a good test and what
makes a nice booklet to sell

William Li: Can Abhay et al commit to replying via email to all the chat
comments on the listserv?

Bruce Brown: for ipa.. you mean.. ;-)

Chris GMG: you said that...

Bruce Brown: you will have to edit and group the points and concerns.. well
you know that

Bruce Brown: ciao everyone

Aileen Chiu: I think it will be fair for each supplier if they all are on
the same position of the press sheet. Perhaps the supplier image is in the
center of the sheet surrounded by quality control elements such as big boxes
of a gray or other colors to be used to compare from press run to press run.
Each supplier has its press run. This will rule out the argument that one
position on the sheet is better than another especially measurement and
visual assesment will be involved.

William Li: Multiple press runs, though, raises the spectre of inter-press
run agreement, which might or might not be worse.  It's 6 of one, half a
dozen of the other.  If you wanted to be scientific about this, we'd first
have to do press runs to establish which was worse -- across press sheet vs.
press run-to-press run.

William Li: re: Bruce's comments on score of matching proof to press run, we
could do this as well synthetically, if there is appetite for this type of
thing, and I'd trust the synthetic comparison more than printing out proofs
and measuring them (if the concern is to generate numbers).

William Li: If the concern is overall image comparison, then proofing is
about the only way to go.

William Li: You should also see how many suppliers there are.  Depending on
the number, and if you juggle the form size a bit, it may be possible to
intersperse the forms from each supplier to partially nullify the effect
Aileen is raising.